Ok the 26th Oct 2004 (25th Oct 2004 US time) I won 2 ebay auctions for a pair
of Dell 1550 1U Rack mount servers supposed "Just off corporate lease".
The auctions maybe found here:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5727309732
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5727310446
Mirrors of the pages (incase of expiry) are here: Item 5727309732 and Item 5727310446
Unfortunately there started a waiting game.
First I mailed 'imfuzzy' asking if I could have a price on shipping both items
together to California, indicating that I was sure the address was:
Internet Systems Consortium, Inc. 950 Charter Street Redwood City CA 94063 USAThough I would have to confirm the address before shipping.
On the 2nd Nov 2004 I sent a friendly but serious reminder that payment had been made.
I received a reply from 'Craig Felton' stating that he had been out of time and the packages had been shipped by Fedex and I could follow them with a tracking number of: 482807110000032Q
Getting concerned again that the tracking number/status hadn't changed from
'Package not in Fedex possession' I mailed again indicating that I would
initiate a fraud complaint if the packages din't get shipped.
7 days later....
After no response I sent a warning letter indicating that a response was required in 7 days or a fraud complaint would be initiated. I also added a reminder that 'prompt shipping' is required after payment and 3 weeks is not "prompt".
5 days later....
I used the ebay 'ask the seller a question' to sent the following text:
This is the final warning you have 48 hours to respond (current time 22 Nov 2004 07:00 GMT) I have been in contact with eBay [FR%X10049 Customer SafeHarbor [#AU ?01] (KMM106779429V66158L0KM)] over the failure to ship, they have advised to lodge a Fraud Report ( http://pages.ebay.com.au/services/buyandsell/disputeres.html ), contact Paypal and my credit card company (in that order) to recover the money paid. If have to go that far you will receive negative feedback. Further, and charges that I have to bare for the chargeback will be passed to a local friend who will recover them on my behalf, by way of legal action if nessesary. I am somewhat astonished and dismayed that nearly 4 weeks from payment you still have not shipped the items. This is completely against the terms and conditions of sales on eBay, and against the Terms and Conditions of any Paypal account. Yours Matthew
I used the ebay 'ask the seller a question' function to indicate the package still not being shown as picked up, the package had not arrived, and that I could see them trading throughtout November 2004.
I received a mail from 'Jennifer Siple' appologising and offering an
explaination of the problems as being a close family member had been shot
and that she had been out of town for some period. She went on to explain that
if I still wanted the server she would ship them out by Fedex Express and even
offered a partial refund.
I replied immediately with 'Just get them on the courier and get them
delivered'.
The reply returned 'I appreciate you still wanting to finish this transaction.
I will get these servers shipped first thing in the morning. I will forward on
the tracking number for the package then. I apologize for the affect I have had
on your business.'
Sent yet another email saying that I had neither heard anything nor had the
Fedex number altered, and they had 24 hours to refund or I would be filling
a fraud complaint.
...At this point I had given up waiting and figured buying a new server would be
quicker (I was right).
I spent 45 minutes on the phone to Paypal after lodging a fraud complaint only
to have the complaint closed immediately (because it should
have been done within 30 days). They appologised for the fact that the emails
from ebay were confusing and incorrectly led me to believe that
as it was an International transaction I had to make the fraud complaint in the
30-60 day period but refused to do anything.
I contacted my credit card issuer over the problem, and they said 'No
problem, sounds like a failure to deliver issue fair and simple'.
My credit card issuer took a statement and indicated that I would need to sign
the statement and return it within 14 days of receiving it.
Received a mail from 'Craig Felton' stating that the package had been shipped
by USPS not Fedex Express and the tracking code was:
0103 8555 7491 8069 9978
I immediately set this up with their 'Track & Confirm by email' system. This was
showing as awaiting collection.
... Some time around this time I logged back into Paypal and went to the resolution
centre as I was confused by a comment 'Craig Felton' had made. To my surprise
Paypal had opened the complaint and had it sitting in a status of
'Investigating' with a note indicating they had mailed Craig/Jennifer and they
had 7 days to respond. I watched and waited.
I received a mail from my Credit Card issuer with the statement and a prepaid
reply envelope to be signed and returned.
.. I sat on the letter waiting to see if Paypal resolved the issue at the end of the 7 days..
Logged in to Paypal to look at the Resolution center case to find
Craig/Jennifer had replied again indicating yet another Fedex tracking
number. This time:
After no change in status sent the 'statement' to my credit card issuer with
the URL of this page 'for extra information'.
Edited this page to include links to the emails and uploaded all the emails to
the webserver.
Paypal processed the complaint with the following resolution...
Left feedback for 'Craig' referencing the text version of this page so others may see the chain of
events as I fully expect 'Craig/Jennifer' to retaliate with
a bad feedback as I note they still haven't left any for me to date.
Logged into eBay and Paypal to see if there was any update or comment.
Interestingly I am now unable to view the feedback of 'imfuzzy' as they have
changed their eBay id to: computer_components_4_sale
Finally got time to upload all the emails in the correspondance. They are all
available (unedited) at: http://www.sorbs.net/~matthew/imfuzzy/index.html
Don't trust Paypal to look after you, if they find in your favour, they still
won't refund if the other party has taken the money and run.
Called Westpac Credit Card Fraud service, they indicated they processed the
charge back on 4th January 2004 to the value of Au$1,344.74 (US $982.47).
14th December 2004
15th December 2004
23rd December 2004
Our investigation of this complaint is now complete.
The seller provided the following tracking information:
Tracking Number: 01038555749180699978, 791996164580
Tracking Company: First tracking number is usps, it was returned due to size
requirements. Package is shipped Fedex Now
This tracking information did not confirm delivery to your address. Therefore,
we attempted to award you a full refund. Unfortunately, there were insufficient
funds available in the seller's PayPal account to complete the refund.
We were able to recover a refund amount of $42.79 USD on your behalf.
PayPal does not consider this a satisfactory resolution of this complaint. We
have taken action against this seller's account until the complaint has been
resolved.
No further action is required of you at this time.
We value your business and regret this experience. To make sure future
transactions proceed smoothly, we suggest reading our Security Tips.
Any portion of the payment which was funded with your credit card will be
refunded directly to your credit card. Credits to a credit card generally take
2-3 business days to post, and may not be immediately reflected in the card's
balance.
Page Mirrored here
25th December 2004
29th December 2004
Further computer_components_4_sale have made their ID 'private' so you cannot
get the URL to see this webpage... Now there is an interesting fraud twist.
30th December 2004
=================
===== Moral =====
=================
Do get a credit card with either insurance or a good fraud resolution system, I
am waiting on the full refund from them after they process the
investigation.
Don't trust eBay feedback mechanism to protect you - the fraudsters can easily
change IDs and make themselves private, then after 90 days when the items have
expired they effectively get off "scott free".
==================
====== More ======
==================
6th January 2005
With the Paypal Credit back of: US$42.79 gives a recovered total of: US$1025.26
making me out of pocket by: US$9.74
In theory I should now report the fraud to eBay however I have the feeling that
with only $9.74 out of pocket I will not get very far.
The biggest problem is Westpac have indicated that the chargeback can be
reversed within 45 days - that puts me well out side of the eBay fraud reporting period if that were to happen.
==================
===== Update =====
==================
12th January 2005
Logged into eBay to see if there was any update and to see what was happening with Mr imfuzzy.... Nothing, so I took the opportunity
to post a followup feedback comment pointing to this page.
Logged into Paypal to see if they had any comment on the Chargeback (was expecting to see them take back their $42.79), and to my surprise
they had opened/change the resolution from 'Case Closed' to "Waiting For Seller's Response" again.... Seems they received the
Chargeback and they are none too happy...* Their comments are mirrored here.
Of course this means I'll have to watch the updates a little more closely over the next few days.
* As a good friend recently put it "Well then PayPal should've done the right thing in the 1st place!"